tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985749207871898668.post3808463467230730717..comments2023-08-29T04:44:21.191-07:00Comments on Over the Misty Mountains: Character Creation VS Character GenerationJeremy Murphyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17072164588443858336noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985749207871898668.post-42689516817246492082012-11-25T23:58:30.915-08:002012-11-25T23:58:30.915-08:00You're saying the book would tell you how to g...You're saying the book would tell you how to generate but not how to create? I think "dick move" might be a little extreme. I'd say it's more of a design decision. And if players don't like the standard method, they'll invent their own to suit their tastes more.<br /><br />This is probably just a matter of personal preference. If you think your new player will Billyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16717291964764757651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985749207871898668.post-42950187934959492092012-11-22T21:01:43.503-08:002012-11-22T21:01:43.503-08:00Wouldn't you say that handing someone new to a...Wouldn't you say that handing someone new to an rpg a rulebook and then not providing any assistance in creating a character would qualify as a "dick move"?<br /><br />I'm not arguing that generation is easier. And I play games with basically random characters, but they are board games that I don't expect to play for long. I think most people would rather have some input, Jeremy Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17072164588443858336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985749207871898668.post-2795400313694385172012-11-22T15:02:22.152-08:002012-11-22T15:02:22.152-08:00For a new player, especially one who is new to RPG...For a new player, especially one who is new to RPGs, generation is just easier. If you invite a friend over to try out an RPG, then hand them a rulebook, there's a good chance that they will decide "this is not for me".<br /><br />That's one of my problems with late edition DnD--I can handle the creation methodology, but a newbie definitely can't. Hell, even early DnD can Billyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16717291964764757651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985749207871898668.post-4336076896994909172012-10-18T11:58:54.478-07:002012-10-18T11:58:54.478-07:00I'm pretty sure I could design and OD&D ch...I'm pretty sure I could design and OD&D character creation system that would take 5 minutes even for an relative newbie. I'm going to try that.<br /><br />If you want to say that stats matter (removing the double negative for clarity), then why is your example on why stats don't matter?<br /><br />The fun you had with your dwarf was purely the results of your choices. The fact Jeremy Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17072164588443858336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985749207871898668.post-56534007092157257372012-10-18T10:39:24.558-07:002012-10-18T10:39:24.558-07:00I'm a big fan of creation for both the crunch ...I'm a big fan of creation for both the crunch and fluff of it. In fact I usually start with crunch, which inspires fluff, which then makes me go back to change the crunch to fit the fluff. <br /><br />Philo Pharynxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14785954267292226321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985749207871898668.post-71572936573422778662012-10-18T10:31:40.263-07:002012-10-18T10:31:40.263-07:00addendum, I misremembered and misrepresented his s...addendum, I misremembered and misrepresented his stats, they were actually<br />Strength 5 (-2)<br />Dexterity 4 (-2)<br />Constitution 13 (+1)<br />Intelligence 13 (+1)<br />Wisdom 4 (-2)<br />Charisma 10grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04504705324275536197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985749207871898668.post-14986221831311843642012-10-18T10:29:26.242-07:002012-10-18T10:29:26.242-07:00In the B/X game I play I can make a character in a...In the B/X game I play I can make a character in about five minutes. This is as much time as I am interested in thinking about it for. I would rather spend my time thinking about how to lure that ogre into the pit trap we found when my last character didn't check the floor thoroughly.<br /><br />I don't want to say that your stats don't matter, but it doesn't ruin my fun when theygrahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04504705324275536197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985749207871898668.post-34930478940937840552012-10-18T08:19:06.021-07:002012-10-18T08:19:06.021-07:00Time I will buy, but only to a certain extent. Bu...Time I will buy, but only to a certain extent. But I still feel that generation offers NOTHING in terms of time that even a simple creation system could not.<br /><br />Let's look as something like old school D&D. As written it is a mix of generation (roll stats, HP and money) and creation (buy equipment).<br /><br />If we swap it out for pure creation, and by that I mean a series of Jeremy Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17072164588443858336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985749207871898668.post-30841388204371832932012-10-18T08:13:10.317-07:002012-10-18T08:13:10.317-07:00Other than a tabletop RPG, I have yet to play a ga...Other than a tabletop RPG, I have yet to play a game where there is a significant randomization factor involved in the game setup. Actually, one does come to mind - Risk.<br /><br />Most people who play games that I know expect games to be about making interesting decisions at most or all phases of the game, not randomization, especially not during game setup/startup.<br /><br />Also, I think Jeremy Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17072164588443858336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985749207871898668.post-86238598240916687432012-10-18T08:03:51.735-07:002012-10-18T08:03:51.735-07:00Some very good comments here, which prevent me fro...Some very good comments here, which prevent me from having to write an essay of my own!<br /><br />Suffice it to say that, with character generation systems, the character creation process is called "playing the character"....And after playing around (a lot) with character creation games, I am more than happy to go "back" to a game using an excellent character generation ravencrowkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09315630554847698555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985749207871898668.post-79872963084251042912012-10-18T05:17:32.727-07:002012-10-18T05:17:32.727-07:00I'm glad you mentioned character death. The mo...I'm glad you mentioned character death. The more time you invest into the character creation process, the less you want the said character to end up dead. Which might happen because of bad dice rolls, i.e. luck. The games designers were actually quite wise: a fast generation system helps to get a player back in the game who has just had a character die and is feeling the sting of it. A 2-3 Pete Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03438651595079082035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985749207871898668.post-81377426649677830002012-10-18T05:12:31.837-07:002012-10-18T05:12:31.837-07:00That's not at all how I read his comment. He w...That's not at all how I read his comment. He was saying something quite different to what you think he was. He was saying that many players come up with crap back stories and tend to waffle on about them thinking that they are really good, whereas random generation naturally produces characters who have little or no back story at all and therefore avoids this issue. With random generation, a Pete Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03438651595079082035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985749207871898668.post-76456256582722404812012-10-18T01:28:19.617-07:002012-10-18T01:28:19.617-07:00Generating characters is faster, much faster, than...Generating characters is faster, much faster, than creating them. Aside form a certain form of misguided bravado, this is the real advantage of generating instead of creating characters.<br /><br /> A game is "about" whatever you spend most of your time doing. Different games of D&D are about different things depending on the players and DM. By making character generation very fast,grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04504705324275536197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985749207871898668.post-90796974108710857922012-10-17T20:59:29.929-07:002012-10-17T20:59:29.929-07:00I'm curious about the logic here. You say tha...I'm curious about the logic here. You say that generation systems make the game about skill, but how can that be so when they explicitly remove skill, indeed they remove almost all choice from the character creation process.<br /><br />In addition, this article is mostly discussing the process of character creation. Once the game itself starts, there is no difference in the way the players Jeremy Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17072164588443858336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-985749207871898668.post-47693675285535635462012-10-17T15:48:50.767-07:002012-10-17T15:48:50.767-07:00I'm going to put this here, instead of on G+ s...I'm going to put this here, instead of on G+ so that anyone reading the article above can reference it.<br /><br />The thing that you're missing is that in these systems that use random generation <i>the game isn't about the character</i> it's about you, your skill and the choices you make.<br /><br />The things you are randomly determining? Rarely provide any sort of bonus at all-Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02331863932906631618noreply@blogger.com