Further Thoughts on the 5E Economy

Should I just call it 5Economy?

In any event, after being called out on my math, I settled down to think about the world-building ramifications of the crafting rules a bit more.

The basic math leads me to some conclusions which - fortunately I think - replicate (in a rule-of-thumb, simplified for gaming way) the sort of conditions you'd expect in a faux-medieval economy.

1) Limited Supply

This is the really big takeaway.  If, as a craftsman, you have to pay 50% of the cost of an item upfront in materials (or even 25%, really) the item represents a loss to you personally until it sells.  The bigger the ticket item, the more you'd have to plowed into it.  A suit of plate mail represents 2 YEARS of living expenses for a tradesperson in materials...

Plate mail is a bad example here, because it is, by it's nature, a very limited-demand item, but even something like a longsword (15 gp) represents a lost week's wages (at 1 gp/day) until it sells.  So only a well-established blacksmith can keep much inventory - it costs too much.

It also means that local blacksmiths, who presumably make their money just "practicing the craft" and maintaining a modest income, don't get many opportunities to sell big-ticket items like this, so they are unlikely to have much stock.  Sure, they'll make it - but only if somebody wants it.

The upshot here is that it doesn't make much sense to be able to get expensive equipment in small towns or villages unless there is some other reason for it to be available.  Sure, you can get it made, but there won't be much/any lying around.

2) Pay up front and expect to wait.

If it costs a smith 50% of the finished good (or even 25%) to make something, they are gonna want a deposit.  Probably for the entire materials cost.  Unless you're a local and he knows where you live and whatnot.  Transient murderhobos get no credit.

If the smith is solo, divide the cost by 10 to figure out how many days it will take.  If he is part of a team, multiply the team by 10, then divide by that.  Minimum 1 day.

Example:  Longsword - 15 gp.  Cost you 7 gp up front (15/10) - wait a day and a half.

3-man team for Plate Mail - 1500 gp - cost you 750 gp up front (1500/30) - wait about 2 months (50 days)

This math would break down differently if things are less than a gold piece, I think.  But unless the total cost of all the items exceeds 10 gp - the answer is "one day".

3) Some parts need houseruling/handwaving.

Darts.  They cost 5 cp, or 1/20th of a gp.  If you can make 5 gp worth of materials/day, then you can make 100 darts a day.  Again, if you are paying 50% of the cost as materials, maybe you are just gluing the fins on and screwing on the pointy bit?  Still seems fast.

There is some weirdness in the sense that a gold dart would presumably take much longer to make than a normal one, that sort of thing can mostly be handwaved (or not really worried about)

4) Any smith can forge anything.

There is only one "smith tools" set/skill, so technically speaking any smith can forge any item.  The materials cost is clearly a limitation, but presumably not if you are putting down a deposit.  Realistically (or as much realism as possible in elfgames) you might want to require larger cities for smiths with the skills to make highly specialized/expensive items, like spyglasses or plate armor. Even swords (heck, especially swords) had very specialized skills associated with making them.

5) Scale up for Art Objects.

Time/cost is determined by end value. If you want to make a really beautiful, valuable item, just pick how much you want it to be worth (or ask the DM), pay the materials cost (meteoric steel is pricey) and get to forging.

Hopefully the DMG will have some magic-item creation rules, but until then, requiring that you start with a very valuable item is pretty common.

Obviously, PC's won't be looking at using crafting to make money, but a PC (or ex-PC) with some capital, contacts in the sword-swinging community and knowledge of blacksmithing has a pretty good retirement plan available.

So the house rules I'm going to start with on crafting are "Pay anywhere from 10% to 50% for materials" and "You can make an item a work of art by paying more in materials/crafting time".

That's all for smithing, although it looks like performance might need a look, too.

The 5e Economy

In older versions of D&D, the economics were weird and often nonsensical.  Especially considering that PC’s do not inhabit the “normal” economic system.  They operate more like gold rush prospectors than shopkeepers.  High risk, occasional massive payout and long stretches of downtime.

And where do magic items (sale and purchase) fall into the economy?  3e just normalized it – you could buy/sell magic items, and were expected to.  4e ignored it, mostly.  You sell magic items for half their worth, buy them for full cost and just shut up and kill stuff.

And then there is crafting.  Where does it fall into the economy – it has to be less profitable to stay home and craft than to go on adventures – otherwise, who would go adventuring?

I think it should be useful/interesting to be able to do crafting.  Players like to have their characters build things, create things, to leave a mark on the world other than by killing.  Plus, as a DM, it’s nice to have an underlying economy that makes a bit of sense – that you can build off of in a consistent, interesting way.

I’m going to start digging into the 5e crafting economy, looking at its links to the larger economic structure implied by the lifestyle and hireling rules, and see if it all hangs together.

Hellz yah Ron Perlman

Case Study 1:  Blacksmithing.

Historically, Blacksmithing was a high-skill, high-prestige occupation.  Ideally, that will also be the case here.

According to the rules, it takes the average person 250 days to learn to use a Smith’s tools, and the cost is 1 gp per day to do so, assuming they can find a teacher.  The tools themselves cost 20 gp (I assume this is for a travelling blacksmith, rather than the cost of setting up a forge).

Based on the lifestyle expenses, this is a fairly expensive proposition – essentially it is the cost of a year of modest lifestyle, so a reasonably high barrier to entry, consistent with a high-skill occupation, and requiring an apprenticeship period.

Now, let’s assume that the blacksmith has the skills – the crafting rules state that they have to pay ½ the cost of the item in “raw materials”.  My initial thought is that this is too high a raw materials cost, but if we suppose it covers the overhead to set up and run the forge, or to use somebody else’s forge, it might be doable.

The example they use in the book is 3 people working on a suit of plate mail, so let’s look at the economics of that and see if crafting actually pays.

We’ll start with the numbers.  A suit of plate mail costs 1500 gp.  So it will cost 750 gp in raw materials.  Let’s assume that means all the leather, coal, metal, tools and facilities you need to build the suit of armor.  In practical terms, this means that only a well-established, experienced blacksmith could even attempt this – the materials cost is too high, unless you are being fronted by the client.  But let’s assume this is an experienced smith who has the resources to do this project.

The remaining 750 gp worth of labor needs to happen at 5 gp/day, or 150 days worth of labor.  Remember that the smith can maintain himself at Modest level (1gp/day) for that time period.  If he does it all himself and lives modestly, he makes 750 gp profit, plus the 150 gp in living expenses.

*Edit* I messed this up.  I assumed that the profit was all they got back - but it isn't - they recoup their initial investment as well.  So this part below is all wrong.

So here is a big problem – if he starts the same project over again, he’s back to 0 – making nothing but plate mail (or anything else, by extension) means he never makes profit.  He has to plow all his profits back into materials for the next set.  

Of course, he is paying for a modest living for himself, so that is something.

Now let’s assume he has 2 helpers.  The helpers also earn 1 gp/day while helping, and they cut the time down to 50 days of labor.  Great – 750 gp profit for 50 days of work, plus the "lifestyle income" of 150 gp.

If he has a family– let’s say 3 gp/day for a family of 4.  So it’s costing him 2 gp/day to work on this – if the kids are the helpers, then just the forge work pays for itself, and he's still making 750 gp in 50 days.  Which is pretty good.

So these rules work (sorta) for PC crafting, since I guess the raw materials (this is really just materials, not raw materials) cost assumes that the PC doesn't
want to do most of the work themselves, and has the scratch to pay for steel, chainmail, leather and soforth.

So blacksmithing – it’s a decent living, and it doesn't really seem to matter what you are building - the 5 gp/day structure ensures that you can make a pretty good living at it, assuming you start with the matching 5 gp for raw materials.

I would like to give it more flexibility though, so say that you can put in UP TO 50% in raw materials, with a 10% minimum.

Let's try that suit of plate again with these rules.

The blacksmith puts in 25% in raw materials cost - 375 gp.  He has to do 1125 gp worth of work, or 225 days of labor.  He has 2 helpers, who just get paid the 1 gp/day modest living salary.  That means 75 days of work for the three of them.  At the end of that time, they clear 1500 gp for the suit.  Takes longer, but the basic math is the same.

Of course, if I was being detailed, I'd modify the raw materials cost and final product cost based on material availability and technology levels in an area, but that's for another day.